Tips and Strategies for Outbound Sales Marketing

Intro (00:09):
Welcome to Innovations and Breakthroughs with your host Rich Goldstein, talking about the evolutionary, the revolutionary, the inspiration and the perspiration, and those aha moments that change everything. And now here’s your host, Rich Goldstein.

Rich (00:33):
Rich Goldstein here, the host of the Innovations and Breakthroughs podcast, where I feature top leaders on the path they took to create change. Past guests include Joe Polish, Roland Fraser, and Mike Calhoun. This episode is brought to you by my company, Goldstein Patent Law, where we help you to protect your ideas and products. We’ve advised and obtained patents for thousands of companies over the past 28 years. So if your company that has software or product, or designed you one protected, build a goldstein patent law.com, whether our amazing free resources for learning about the patent process, and you could email my team welcome goldstein pc.com to explore. It’s a match to work together. You could also check out the book I wrote for the American Bar Association that explains in plain English how patents work. It’s called the ABA Consumer Guide to Obtaining a Patent. Have with me here today, AJ Cassada. AJ is the co-founder of Revenue Boost, and he’s the founder of the B2B Sales and Marketing Secrets community. He’s an entrepreneur and sales consultant that’s passionate about helping companies systematically scale their lead generation and acquisition primarily through outbound in organic strategies. He was born in New York, now lives in Vietnam, and loves to travel and work Nomadically. I’m happy to welcome here today, AJ Cassada. Welcome, AJ.

AJ (01:51):
Thanks, Rich. Appreciate you having me on the show. Looking forward to our conversation.

Rich (01:54):
Absolutely. So let’s talk a bit about how you got started in entrepreneurship. Like what’s your, what’s your background? Is that led you to what you’re doing now?

AJ (02:03):
Yeah, absolutely. So it started out I was, um, you know, like many people, I went to college without having a clear direction on what I wanted to do. I kind of stumbled into entrepreneurship and, and found the passion for it along the way. I was, remember I was 18 years old. I was a freshman in college and a recruiter came in talking about working in sales and how I could make a, a lot of money over the summer. And I was like, okay, cool. I’m a college kid. I, I need some money. I was only working at a restaurant at the time, so, um, not really knowing my direction. I was just open to anything. And it ended up being a sales and marketing job for a construction company. So I got hired, I went with it, ended up I had to do door-to-door sales and knock on like thousands of doors, but which was not what I expected, but it was a great way to learn, uh, to get over a rejection.

Rich (02:39):
And What were you selling?

AJ (02:41):
Uh, house painting. So it was a, it was a painting. Okay. Yeah, it was a national painting company.

Rich (02:45):
I figured it was like pa um, painting or siding or, um, yeah. Um, you know, sunrooms or something like that.

AJ (02:52):
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. No, it’s simple, simple enough job for college students. So I learned, like, I learned all the fundamental a business, right? Sales, marketing, also hiring, hiring crews, managing the finances, you know, customer service, all of that. So it was a great experience. It was a cool opportunity I got to have as a college student. But then I, that was when I realized like, okay, sales and marketing is, is, uh, I really enjoyed this. I, it kind of felt natural to me. I ended up being, uh, the top salesperson in New York State that year, again, with no prior experience. Just really, really worked harder than everyone else. And, and had a little bit of a natural inclination towards it. And that’s kind of when I realized like, okay, if, if I can sell, you know, if I can sell these company services. Cause I ended up, you know, working in the company for five years, building managing sales teams. I got to manage a sales team of like 20 people by the time I was 21 years old. So it was a great experience, but after a point I realized like, if I can sell and market and basically build these guys business, you know, I could probably do that for myself. And after a point of just getting a little burned out from the corporate world, um, I decided to eventually take the leap into entrepreneurship, which at the beginning was, uh, starting my own digital agency.

Rich (03:48):
Cool. And so, um, in, in, in terms of digital agency, you, you were, um, doing marketing, performing marketing services for clients. Like what type of clients and and what did you focus on?

AJ (04:00):
Yeah, so when I started, it was an HSC called Magic Clicks. And I kind of stumbled into digital marketing on the side because our co the company I worked for, the construction company, they were like a 40 million a year company. Um, but all of their marketing was offline. They were, they were an old traditional business, not really catching up to digital times. And I started just, you know, playing around with digital marketing methods on my own to, to bring in leads for that company because I didn’t wanna have to always have tons and tons of people going out, going door to door. It’s really a grind, especially in the, the, the cold harsh winter in, in, uh, tri-state area. Right? Um, so I started playing around with digital marketing, was able to generate some leads from Facebook. Then I was like, wow, this is awesome.

AJ (04:34):
You know, I learned that what I learned about offline marketing and sales still applied to online. And I realized maybe I could help other businesses with this, right? So it started, you know, organically because people I knew that were other business owners were asking me for help. Cause they knew I, I worked in marketing. So I just started helping them. And I realized like, okay, this is like a new thing. A lot of people need help with digital marketing, not a lot of people know it. And I really enjoyed it, right? I was ready for kind of something new. So started just freelancing, taking odd jobs, you know, building websites, doing paid ads, doing social media management, not really having a clear direction, just trying to get my hands on whatever I could to learn this space. Uh, and then I ended up, you know, deciding to quit my job and settle and go full-time into doing, uh, ppp C So Facebook, Google Ads, and focusing on health-based, health-based businesses. So like gyms, yoga studios, um, doctor’s, clinics, that sort of thing. So that was what I, that was what I ended up deciding to, uh, focus on.

Rich (05:22):
Got it. Um, and, and really what led you into what you’re doing now, um, in terms of outbound, uh, outbound lead generation and teaching people how to do outbound lead generation?

AJ (05:34):
Yeah, absolutely. So when I started my first agency, I didn’t have a big marketing budget, right? I just left my job. I was just living off savings. So I had to, I had to find ways to bring in clients consistently without needing a big, a big budget for ads, right? I wasn’t trying to put a, you know, rack up a bunch of debt or take out a loan. Um, so that was when I discovered, you know, outbound legion for my own business, right? Doing cold email and LinkedIn outreach. That’s how we got all of our clients and how we built up our whole roster. And it was really based on what I learned at the mild corporate job, right? Because we did, we did telemarketing cold calling door to door, which is still outbound, right? I view outbound as just starting a conversation with your prospects on a one-to-one basis.

AJ (06:08):
So anyway, being that I did in the corporate world and I built my first agency off of it, I realized along the way that a lot of other agency owners needed help with sales because there was a lot of people that were coming to me asking like, how do you get clients? Or How do you do your sales calls? Or how do you do this? And to me, it, it kind of was almost second nature at that point, cuz I had been doing it so long at my job. Like, like sales wasn’t the hard part for me when I started my agency. The hard part was filming and learning about operations and systems and processes and all that, like, like managing the business, right? Um, but sales was the part that came easy to me. Cause I was, I had just done it forever. But I realized along the way that a lot of other marketing agencies didn’t come from a sales background.

AJ (06:43):
Maybe they worked at an agency or they came from a technical background and they were good at the fulfillment, but nobody had taught them about sales, right? So I ended up just kind of helping out, again, people in my network, right? People in other communities or coaching programs I was in. I remember there was one, um, one guy that asked me for help on his sales calls. Cause he was having lots of calls with clients, but he couldn’t actually close anything. And I did like an hour of just role play with him. Like, Hey, tell me your script. Tell me what you’re doing and I’ll just help you work on it. And it was just, this was for free just to help out. Cause I always love sharing my, sharing my knowledge. Um, and then he was like, Hey, uh, I, I would love to do this like every week I could pay you for it.

AJ (07:16):
And I was like, you can pay me for this. Like, I didn’t, I didn’t think of it as anything, right? But then that’s when I kind of realized what consulting was and what teaching, what, uh, coaching was. Um, so after doing that a couple more times, I realized that there was a huge demand. Cause I saw, again, all these people that had businesses even bigger than me, but they didn’t really have like the basic sales and marketing process in place. I saw a lot of companies in the agency world that we’re relying on referrals or their networking or just the owner being the face of the brand and didn’t really have like, predictable client cutting systems. So after a while, I just realized the demand ends then started revenue boost where we took the outbound lead gen methods I’ve learned for years and now teach this to other agency owners or really anyone in the B2B space that has like a product or service that they sell to, to other businesses.

Rich (07:57):
Yeah, no, there, there’s a tremendous d demand. I think sales is one of the, the most underappreciated and under, um, uh, exercise skills among all business people. Um, and, uh, I’m curious, like the person you spent an hour with kind of going over some things, like what type of results did they have?

AJ (08:16):
Yeah, so he, he did really well. He was, again, just starting a, a brand new agency, but he was able to finally get his like first few clients, which for him that was huge, right? Like, just being able to go from zero to having his first five clients. Um, and I think, uh, like all they really did with him was just really work how he was approaching his sales calls, right? So I think a a lot of people, they start up a sales call and they, they rush into pitching their product or service. And I think if you’re talking about your, your product or service in the first five or 10 minutes, that’s a problem because you haven’t really taken that time to understand the prospect’s needs, right? Because not everyone needs exactly the same thing. And we shouldn’t be in the business of just trying to sell to everyone, right? Sometimes you hop on a call and it’s like, Hey, this isn’t a fit, you know, but I can recommend you to someone else. Um, so I had just mainly flipped into that consultative selling mindset of just actually being like a doctor, right? Seeing what someone needs, diagnosing, and then only offering your solution if it makes sense. Um, right.

Rich (09:06):
You just only offering it as a match to kind of what they need.

AJ (09:09):
Um, yeah, exactly. And when you have that mindset, it’s like you don’t come off like feeling pushy or salesy. It’s like, oh yeah, I’m just trying to help this person

Rich (09:15):
Understand. They, they thank you for the conversation because you helped them clarify what they need and, and, um, and what the solution might be. It’s funny, I have a similar to that too. It’s like I was, um, uh, you know, uh, this 10 years or, or more, I was with my personal trainer and I was just sitting in his office after our session and I saw on a whiteboard, he had a goal up there. I was like, what’s that? What’s that? He says, well, that’s my goal for, for bringing in, uh, new, new client packages this week. It was like, said like $4,000, well, for the month, like $4,000. And I was kind of thinking like, that’s it. But, um, I asked him about, well, how does it go and like, how do you go about pitching it? And, and, and he, you know, gave me the usuals what you’d expect.

Rich (09:58):
He’s like, I told them why health is important to them, and I told them why blah, blah, blah. And I told them, blah, blah, blah. I was like, well, how about this? Don’t you ask someone like, like why is, um, like, you know, like what brings you in here? Like what, like why is your health important to you? You know? And keep asking them questions until you get to something juicy like, uh, well, you know, like I, I realize I’m a bit overweight and you know, my, my daughter is having a baby, and I’m like, I’d love to be around to watch that kid grow up and like, get to something juicy like that. And then that becomes the kind of the, the reason why they buy the package of, of, you know, et cetera. So we had this conversation and um, and then like, you know, the next week he told me how well it had been going and like, you know, within about a month that goal on that board was $15,000 for the month, not $4,000 because he’d been crushing it by just making a few adjustments in sales. So when you mentioned you one hour with someone’s story, I just, I know kinda how, how little people know about sales and how much they kind of try it in the wrong direction. They try to pitch without really taking the time to get to know someone and get to know what the needs are.

AJ (11:12):
Absolutely. No, that’s awesome though. Just a quick conversation basically to transform that guy’s, uh, that guy’s whole view, right? And he raised his gold,

Rich (11:19):
Um, and I was imagining yours did too. And that’s, that’s kind of why I asked, uh, you know, what type of results he had after that. Um,

AJ (11:26):
Yeah, I just, yeah, definitely go ahead.

Rich (11:28):
But I’m fascinated, so about outbound sales. So I’ve always relied on inbound, um, you know, um, through various means people contact us, whether it’s through, um, you know, internet, uh, marketing funnels where people are searching to learn about, uh, patent attorneys or, um, how to patent their invention or trademarks. Um, or, um, you know, people that I meet at events, and maybe you could call that a little bit outbound, but it’s, it’s kind of like ultimately they, they say, Hey, you know, that guy I met who’s a patent attorney, like, let me get in touch with his firm. And then they call and we talk with them, and then, uh, ultimately we have a sales conversation to figure out what they need and whether it’s a match to work with them and then we start working with them. Um, but outbound is fascinating to me. It’s like, and I, I love your analogy to door-to-door sales, cuz it’s, it seems kinda like, uh, it’s, it’s like, it’s like door-to-door sales except you’re picking a neighborhood, uh, that, um, that you are going to be knocking on. So just fascinated and, and I’d just love to hear more about how it works with outbound sales.

AJ (12:39):
Yeah, absolutely. And I think inbound is great too, and I always tell our clients that we teach our outbound strategies too. Like you shouldn’t just do outbound, right? Every marketing has its own pros and cons. And ideally, you know, as you grow your company, you’re gonna add more channels. Um, but I find outbound is that one that a lot of people really sleep on or they, you know, they, they do the, they do the events, they do the referrals, they do social media, they do paid adss, cuz that’s kinda what they see everyone else doing, right? Um, but the way I look at it is like, inbound is more like fishing and outbound is more like hunting, right? Where like you’re really choosing that target and going after what you wanna, um, you know, what you wanna bring back in, right? But you have a little bit more control over the process, right?

AJ (13:14):
Because with outbound you could basically find a list of 500 companies, you could pick the 500 dream companies, right? The companies that would be the absolute best fit to work with you, most likely to be the easiest to sell, easiest to keep for a long time. And then you’re basically going out to start the conversation with them. So that’s really the main difference, right? Inbound is like they start the conversation with you outbound is you start the conversation with them. Um, but it allows you to have a lot of control over what you’re doing, which is why I think it’s great for anyone that’s starting a business, right? Because they need to kind of like drum up that initial network, or it’s also great for anyone that has a business already, but they want to be break into like a, a new niche or maybe they’re working with lots of different type of clients, but they want more of this type of client, right? So it allows you to get really hyper targeted with the types of clients you get because again, you’re curating lists of prospects and you’re just going to reach out to them one by one or having a, having a team member do the same thing. That’s what I’d say the main, um, the main thing I find interesting about it is,

Rich (14:05):
Yeah, no, absolutely. And, um, like how do you, how do you approach a new, um, you know, a new prospect or not a new prospect? Um, but how do you approach like a new client scenario? So let’s say you have someone who, um, has a a a product or service that they want to offer. Like where, where would you begin to begin to craft their path?

AJ (14:30):
Yeah, absolutely. So for anyone getting started with outbound, first you have to be clear on a couple of things. You have to be clear on your marketing foundations, which is what is your niche, what is your offer and, and what is your message? Right? The niche is who exactly are you selling to? You know, if you try to sell your product or service to everyone, it’s gonna really land on deaf ears because you lose the ability to craft a really specific marketing message that really resonates with, with one person and speaks to their, their pains and desires, right?

Rich (14:53):
It just want to inject a cliche here, if you market to everyone you’re marketing to know one

AJ (14:58):
<laugh>. Yeah, we’ve all heard that. Yeah, it’s definitely, um, but it’s true though, right? It’s, it’s exactly what, uh, what what it comes down to. So yeah, if you market everyone you’re marketing to know one, because again, you just look like everyone else, right? But when you say, Hey, I’m, I’m the person that sells, that helps these people with this problem, you know, they, their ears perk up, right? They’re like, oh, you, you understand my world? You understand me, right? Um, so first you have to get clear on again, who your, who you’re selling to, right? What are you selling them, right? What is your offer and not, and your offer isn’t just your service. Your offer is, your offer is really understanding, like, what is the problem that your service solves? What is the solution to that problem and what is the, the outcome that they’ll get, right?

AJ (15:34):
So it’s not just, it’s not, it’s not enough to say like, oh, I do web design or I do Google ads. It’s like, w what does that do for them, right? So don’t just think about what you do, think about what that does for the client. And that’s really what you wanna get down to in your messaging, right? So the message is what connects your offer and your niche. So you wanna know who, what, you don’t wanna know who you’re selling to, which is your niche. You wanna be clear on exactly what you’re delivering to them or how, how your product and service helps them. And the message is kind of the, the what bridges the gaps, right? It, it connects your niche to your offer. So a lot of people, they’ve been told to talk about features and benefits, right? You know, talk about your product, talk about features of it, talk about its benefits, um, but that’s all about you.

AJ (16:12):
And frankly, like strangers don’t care that much about you. So no one really cares that much about your company and the product or service until they know that like you can help them in the first place, then they wanna know all the details, right? Um, but you wanna really be clear on the messaging, which is based around the customer, right? What are their problems? What are their pain points? What are their desires? What are the outcomes they’re after, right? Why would they even need that thing in the first place, right? Just like you talked about with your, uh, with your doctor. Um, so once you’re clear on, again, the, the, once you’re clear on that target customer and what they need, what they’re after, why they would ultimately wanna buy your product or service in the first place, then you can craft specific messaging that really speaks to that and is gonna get them to perk up.

AJ (16:49):
Because once you’re clear on those foundations, then you can actually get to reaching out to someone. And when it comes to crafting your outbound marketing plan, you know, you just first have to pick a channel, right? Some of the common ones are LinkedIn. If you’re in B2B cold email, you can basically build it. You can basically get contact information from businesses online and email them directly. You could also cold call, of course that takes more time. Um, but sometimes that’s a great way to break through. Or you could go on social media, right? You can DM someone on Facebook or on Instagram. Um, so there’s a lot of different ways to do it. It’s more just you have to pick wherever your target market is likely active, because again, any, any channel is just a way to reach a target customer, right? So it’s, it’s more about the message, right?

AJ (17:27):
So a lot of times people, they’ll try a marketing channel, they’ll be like, oh, that didn’t work, but it’s not really, the channel didn’t work, it’s that their message was off or they weren’t, you know, they weren’t reaching the right person. You just have to pick whatever channel makes sense to you or, or is a place that you can find your target clients. And once you, once you know that channel, you know, if you’re in b2b, like LinkedIn or cold email is always gonna be a good bet because every business owner has an email and a lot of them use LinkedIn. LinkedIn too. So if you’re in b2b, I’d start there. And then really when it comes to actually getting started with outbound, there’s just three steps to it, right? There’s identify, which is building and curating a list of prospects. So think about your niche and then go create a list of, you know, a hundred, 500 or a thousand companies in that, in that niche and get their contact information, right?

AJ (18:07):
Message, which is basically, you know, writing your template to them, writing your, writing your message to just get their attention, get the conversation started, which we can talk about some, some tips for copywriting and then convert, which is, you know, when someone replies to your email or your LinkedIn message, how are you going to move them to the next step? Which for most people is usually a call, right? But those are the three steps to outbound, right? So again, first be clear on your foundations, right? Who, what am I selling, who exactly am I selling it to? And what is the language or what is the messaging I’m gonna use to really get their attention? What channel do I wanna try out? And then just get those three steps in place, right? Building the list, writing your copy, and then messaging each person one by one and moving them to your sales process.

Rich (18:46):
Well that sure is actionable <laugh>. Yeah, you’re right. I mean, a lot of times, you know, people say like, well, you know, know your audience and uh, and give them what they want, you know, but like that’s, those are some real concrete steps on how to get started and I, I appreciate, you know, having, uh, having some, some real actionable steps for someone to follow. Um, and, um, uh, yeah. So then now in terms of like, um, in terms of the, the messaging mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like what are some dos and don’ts? I mean like we all get a lot of messages on LinkedIn that are just like, yeah. Oh, come on man, that’s this. Come

AJ (19:22):
On man. Yeah.

Rich (19:23):
<laugh>. Yeah. Like, like what are some things that you’ve figured out that, that that kind of like work well,

AJ (19:28):
Yeah, definitely. So I’d say what I’d recommend everyone listening to this is go start paying attention to the cold pitches you receive. Like before you delete the cold emails, you get open ’em and read ’em, right? Look at all the messages you’re getting in LinkedIn for people trying to offer you something. Cuz then you can understand like what everyone else is doing and then you can know how to stand out and be different from that, right? So it’s almost like go like, actually see what it feels like to be a prospect, right? And then you’ll see a lot of the same patterns and what those patterns are. And what I noticed that a lot of people do that doesn’t really work. And what I used to do that didn’t really work well is first mistake is trying to sell too much. Your goal in an outreach message is not to sell, right?

AJ (20:03):
You’re not gonna give much a stranger who just five seconds ago didn’t know you to buy your product or service. You don’t need to like educate them and tell them everything about your product or service. Just say enough to maybe address a pain point or tell them about something you did for another client. And then they’ll perk up and they’ll be like, Hey, tell me more. And then the goal is to move into a call where you can get into all the nooks and crannies, right? But you wanna really keep the focus of the message about the prospect and their problem, not about your your product, right? Because if you look at most cold emails, it’s like they all look the same. Hey Rich, you know, my name is this, I work at this company, we offer this and it does this. Do you wanna meet for 45 minutes tomorrow?

AJ (20:38):
Right? They all look like that, right? But if you change it to like, Hey Rich, I noticed that you had a, you know, a law firm and from speaking to a lot of law firm owners, I noticed that they struggle with you, you know, these three things. I was wondering if this is a problem for you because I’d love to share with you how we helped other companies like you solve this problem. It’s like, it’s see the difference in language? You’re just talking about them more than you because everyone wants to hear about themselves, right? Um, another thing I would say is not going too long, the shorter the better. Uh, there is a study done by a, by a outreach AI tool called Lavender, and they analyzed a million or so-called emails and they found that emails that had less than 50 words got twice the reply rate.

AJ (21:15):
Now 50 words is not a lot, that’s like four sentences, right? But really you should be able to get the main point across in three, four sentences because you’re just trying to get the conversation started. You’re not trying to tell them everything about what you do, right? But the shorter, the better. I mean, we all know our attention spans are getting lower and lower. Mine is probably worse than whatever goldfish is. Um, and you know, most people when they’re checking their email, like, so it’s different than social media. When people are on social media, they’re there to like waste time or get entertained or read something. They usually have like time to spare. But if you’re reaching someone in their email, they’re not just, you know, screwing around in their email, they’re trying to like get through all their inbox, get it outta the way, and then start like their day, get into meetings or get into like actual work, right?

AJ (21:54):
Right. So people’s attention spans are really limited when you’re reaching out to them on email. So you have to just get the point across really quick, right? Like, no one’s opening their email to be like, I can’t wait to see what sales pitch I got today. They’re opening their email to answer colleagues, clients, team members, and then just get on with it, right? So you have a very little time to make that point and get their attention. So just keep it like three to five sentences and you’ll see just that alone. We’ll, we’ll make your reply rate skyrocket.

Rich (22:17):
Yep. No, I definitely agree. And as far as having like something different, something unique, I, I got an interesting one last night. Um, uh, she said, hello, uh, I must admit I reached out for a specific reason. I hope that’s all right. <laugh>, and I want to say depends on what the reason is, like raising

AJ (22:37):
Yeah,

Rich (22:37):
Exactly. What’s your agendas, you know, <laugh>. But, um, you know, like I was like, okay, that’s cool cuz on the one hand it’s, it seems a little, it seemed a little dopey to me. Like, well, yeah, the specific re it’s, it’s all, it may be all right depending on what your reason is, right? But, but I imagine it, it, it gets a response cuz I was tempted to just re respond with something coy and then like, like, okay, so we’re, you know, we’ve got a little banter going and that’s definitely a good thing to, to get the conversation going. So I thought that was an interesting approach.

AJ (23:12):
Yeah, that’s a funny one. Yeah. I mean, again, at the end of the day, it’s something that’s different that caught your eye, right? You, you probably see most of the emails you got are pretty similar and it’s almost just like we’re just immune to them, right? We just kind of categorize them. Um, but at least that was something that a little bit, uh, a little bit different. It got you thinking about it and now talking about it, right? Yeah.

Rich (23:25):
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I think that’s probably the key. Um, so, um, tell me a little bit about the, the Facebook community that you have.

AJ (23:35):
Yeah, so, um, we have a Facebook group called B2B Sales and Marketing Secrets. If any of you guys wanna learn more about outbound lead gen or sales, it’s totally free. Um, I po we post really good content in there, interviews like this, um, trainings, we have an, we have a minicourse in there around like how to use LinkedIn, how to use cold email, more videos and copywriting. So yeah, I love, as you can tell, I love talking about this stuff. I love teaching it. So if this is interesting to you, you could join us there. And that’s also where I’m pretty active just to connect and chat with if you wanna ask me anything.

Rich (24:03):
And, uh, and what’s the name of it? How do we find it?

AJ (24:06):
It’s called B2B Sales and Marketing Secrets and it’s on Facebook.

Rich (24:10):
Okay, awesome. Um, and if people wanna learn more about you or get in touch with you, what’s the best way for them to go about doing so?

AJ (24:18):
Yeah, best way to connect would definitely be that Facebook group. I’m in there every day and you can add me on Facebook. Other than that, I’m pretty active on LinkedIn. I also post a lot more about this stuff, so you can just add me on LinkedIn at AJ Cassada and I finally just opened up Twitter, so you’ll be one of my first few followers if you follow me there. Although I heard they’re changing their logo or their name or something now.

Rich (24:37):
<laugh>. Oh, always something changing, right? Um, yeah. Uh, what’s your, um, what uh, who are you on, on Twitter?

AJ (24:45):
Uh, AJ underscore Cassada.

Rich (24:47):
Got it. Um, okay, awesome. So, um, I really appreciate you taking the time to, to do this interview and to share some of what you know and what you’ve figured out about, uh, about outbound sales and, um, and thanks so much for being here.

AJ (25:03):
Yeah. Appreciate you having me, Rich. It was a fun, uh, fun conversation.

Outro (25:11):
Thanks for listening to Innovations and Breakthroughs with your host Rich Goldstein. Be sure to click subscribe. Check us out on the web at innovationsandbreakthroughs.com and we’ll see you next time.