How to Increase Sales and Multiply Your Income by Up to 10x

Intro (00:09):
Welcome to innovations and breakthroughs with your host Rich Goldstein, talking about the evolutionary, the revolutionary, the inspiration and the perspiration and those aha moments that change everything. And now here’s your host, Rich Goldstein .

Rich (00:33):
Rich Goldstein here, host of the innovations and breakthroughs podcast, where I feature the top leaders in the path they took to create change past guests include joepolish Roland Frasier, and Joe DeSena. This episode is brought to you by my company, Goldstein patent law, where we help you to protect your ideas and products we’ve advised and obtained patents for thousands of companies over the past 26 years. So if you’re a company that has software product or design, you want protected go to Goldstein patent law.com, where there are amazing free resources for learning about the patent process. And you could email my team@welcomeatgoldsteinpc.com to explore if it’s a match to work together. You could also check out the book that I wrote for the American bar association that explains in plain English, how patents work it’s called the ABA consumer guide to obtaining a pad I have with me here today, Kevin nations, um, Kevin is an expert in marketing sales and scaling businesses. In fact, Kevin is the consulting industries, top expert. He’s the go-to guy for helping them to sell this services simply and profitably. Uh, Kevin has served as a sales mentor to consulting businesses of all kinds, and he’s consistently helped them to five X and even 40 X that businesses and distinct from all the people that are all talk. Kevin is a man of relatively few words, but the words he uses matter deeply. So listen closely. I’m very pleased to welcome you today. Kevin nations welcome Kevin.

Kevin (01:55):
Hey, rich. It’s honored to be on with you.

Rich (01:58):
Thank you. Thank you so much. And so, yeah, let’s, let’s just get chatting. So like, um, kind of how it all came about. I, uh, um, I know like you, you started out in sales and, um, I mean, you didn’t start as being the, um, you know, kind of the top guy in the field. You kind of started from the bottom and really worked your way up. So I’d love to hear a bit about that journey and how you got started in Europe, especially with regards to your sales journey.

Kevin (02:26):
Well, I likely started selling my first memory, uh, when you asked that question was in eighth grade, uh, selling oranges or the future farmers of America in a little town in Mississippi. And I just remember we were supposed to sell like a bushel or two of oranges, uh, for the season. And I just started talking to people in this little town we had just moved to. And before long, they were like hundreds of bushels that I had sold, um, for our little high school FFA and I, it, and, uh, then I went to work, uh, shortly after that, when I was probably about 15 years old, uh, for Sears and I sold tires batteries, uh, and I loved sales, but my dad thought that engineering was a better, uh, life path. And so I went into the Navy pursuit of nuclear engineering, but before I left the Navy, as soon as my last submarine run pulled in, I went back into sales, full time, made the decision to pursue that. At this time, I actually had a family of the son. And so it was a big commitment. Went directly into commission sales in Jacksonville, Florida, and haven’t looked back, I love the opportunity of introducing people to something that will help their life and, or their business and giving them an opportunity to take advantage of something they might not know about or might not know as much about.

Rich (03:56):
Hm. Yeah. So the first thing I noticed there in that statement is the mindset is you love what you do and you, you believe in what you do. Like you love introducing people to something that can make a difference for them. And that’s the frame for which through which you view sales is like, you know, some people like usually the people that don’t do well at sales, they view it through a different frame. It’s like, Oh, I’m convincing people. I’m manipulating people, whatever. And that’s probably why they don’t do well, you know, but you, you know, you’re about contributing to people and you see it as a path to contributing people. And it seems like that’s your frame for sales?

Kevin (04:31):
Absolutely. I think that a lot of people look at if they’re just getting into the sales into a sales career or looking to transition careers, they’re looking many times at will, what company will pay me the most or what a product pays the most commissions. And that’s one way to look at it. For me, it was always, uh, well, maybe not always, but often. And now always, um, you know, what is it that I enjoy the most, what it is that I would enjoy telling people about the most, and while that might not have the best income for the industry at large, that’s this specific area I’m going to do the best in, because like you said, that true belief of, uh, what I have is going to be a real help for whomever the market is for that. And then just finding that market. I think that’d be true for a lot of other people too, if there’s something that you believe in strongly get into selling it because that natural belief is just going to shine through.

Rich (05:28):
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I also think though, too, that sometimes it’s a matter of, um, adjusting them, my mindset, like there are people that like, okay, they are engaged in selling a certain type of product or service. So that’s what they’re doing. They’re not at the point where they’re looking to choose like, well, which company will I work for? So they’re working at a company they’re, they’re selling, they’re doing okay at sales. And, you know, I guess sometimes it’s though it’s the way that they are even viewing what they’re doing. That’s making the biggest difference in how successful they could be. You do you agree?

Kevin (06:04):
I totally agree. I mean, it’s like, uh, one of the biggest benefits, I think to both your enjoyment, your success and your income would be rather than the company telling you all, we’ve got to go out and sell, you know, 14 more units of this one 73 X device, whatever that might be. Uh, if that happens, then look and sake of well, who would be the people that if they didn’t have this type of device, uh, you know, what would the impact to them being, and realize many times you’re not selling the product you’re selling, what that product can do. You’re selling hot tubs, then you’re not necessarily selling hot tubs. You’re selling more intimacy between couples you’re, you’re selling a place where people can invite friends over and be proud to have friends over, and people are gonna want to come and spend time and connect better.

Kevin (06:54):
You know, you’re selling those things. If you’re selling a particular computer device, you know, you’re not selling that computer, but you’re selling the business that, that computer can start the safety that that can provide for a family. So many times we need to get out of our heads because many companies are very, very shortsighted as to especially the larger they get. They’re short-sighted, um, as to the benefits, it brings the customer and they think more about, well, look at all the work that we did in R and D look at all the work we did in developing this. And if you can just forget all of that and forget about all the things that your company is proud of and look at ways that people’s lives might be inferior if they don’t have what you have to offer and to just go find people who might fall in that category.

Kevin (07:40):
And it’s like, look, would you like to have, you know, a relationship where you sit on the couch every night and you eat a processed food and watch TV shows that you can’t even, you know, choose a good one F from among 140 channels, or would you like to crawl into this amazing hot tub and boost your I’ve never even sold hot dogs before I just thought about it, you know, boost your health and vitality and boost your libido and get in with your partner and have a great, great time, you know, improving your health and also building a connection. There’s a lot of difference between those, uh, two evening experiences. And you’re out of the hot tub business, all of the sudden, and you’re into the building a better afternoon, evening, weekend, whatever experience for people. Um, and if you, I mean, just think of the number of people in their lives, who are wanting a hot tub right now, probably far less than people who want to come home from work and be recharged and revitalized.

Rich (08:45):
I think it just increased a bit, the number of people that want a hot tub after hearing what you had to say. Uh, and, and it sounds like though, like, like the inquiry is, is like, um, who would this matter to, and how would it matter? So like, sometimes like even, uh, let’s say if someone was in a sales position, they’re being told like, you know, this is who you’re selling to, but maybe it’s a matter of just opening up the question of like, who would this matter to, like, who is the person that this matters to and how would it matter? How would it make a difference to them? Um, which sounds like the kernel of what you are, uh, of, of what you’re asking yourself to come up with, like the, the amazing things, amazing ways in which you would make a difference for them.

Kevin (09:30):
Absolutely. I mean, we’re very, very likely if you’re successful, you’re in the business of making people’s lives happier. And, um, so if you can find a way to do that by making them less stressed, you know, give them more enjoyment, more freedom, whatever it is that they’re looking for as that particular doorway that they’re seeking to happiness, you can make people’s lives just a little bit happier in whatever you’re offering, um, then done well. Yeah,

Rich (10:00):
Yeah, no, that’s awesome. And you mentioned, um, um, computer sales in there, and I know that, that, that was one of your, um, kind of, that was, uh, a significant part of your journey was being involved in computer sales and making some big scale, big sales that really helped you move to the next level. You want to talk about that a little bit?

Kevin (10:20):
Yes and no. I did work in big cells at big levels, but, uh, one of my first forays into entrepreneurship was when I was in the Navy, I got a bonus for completing nuclear training and was in a, this huge town called Chickopee Massachusetts. Well, of course, yeah.

Rich (10:43):
Right. Um, right next to her Granby Belchertown. Yep,

Kevin (10:49):
Absolutely. So I was there, I was working in, um, Connecticut actually, uh, but was living on Westover air force base because it was in the Navy there in to compete. And I got my bonus and rather than spending my bonus Burke that the Navy had given me, which was not a lot of money. Um, I bought my first two computers, one was assembled and one was not. And I began selling computers, uh, from my basement office, which was essentially a folding table on a whiteboard and a phone line and a dot matrix printer and began selling computer nine pen, probably back then. I have no idea, but yeah, it did have the Sprocket, uh, rocket wheels and the tearaway tearaway edges and tearaway sheets. But I began selling, uh, yeah, who could afford a 24 pin dot matrix fair.

Kevin (11:48):
I began selling those and they really, really, really changed my life because I made about four times, uh, selling computers just in my time off, which wasn’t much, they were working as quite a bit made about four times my Navy salary. Um, which again also wasn’t much, but it, it, it gave me a really increased, uh, way of living. So selling computers, I, I sold literally tens and tens, and even in the hundreds of millions of dollars worth of, uh, computer, uh, products and services later on in my career for a bigger company, but really that, to me, pales in comparison to the seven line seven days, $7 in the Springfield paper that brought me an ability to four times my income while I was still in the Navy grateful for it.

Rich (12:39):
Okay. Well then, then tell more about that. The, the, the, the, um, it sounds like a parade of seven.

Kevin (12:47):
Well, they, um, I forget the name of the paper in Springfield, but it, uh, chicken is a suburb of Springfield mass, and they had a, um, classified bargain, seven lines, seven days, $7. That means every week I spent $7 on advertising to run a seven line ad for all seven days. That was one of the classified, uh, specialists that they had. And I would just advertise a specific computer. And when people called about it, um, if it was one that I had in stock, uh, I would say, I’ve got it. And you can have it, or if they wanted some different configuration, I would tell them that, you know, I can have it within a couple of days and then they could come pick it up. And I began, you know, helping first of all, individuals and then very quickly, very small businesses, uh, move into computers like this’ll date me, but this was the era of, um, the amazing two 86 computer with the 20 or 30 megabytes, not gigabyte.

Rich (13:56):
Yep. I remember the two 80 sixes and the, the three 80 sixes. And it’s funny, actually. So I studied electrical engineering and, uh, I had this great poster. This is, this is a total tangent here, but I just wanna, um, you know, mentioned this. Um, so I studied electrical engineering in the late eighties to early nineties. And like, there was this great poster from Intel that showed the three 86 chip when it came out. And it was like this, it was almost like a, a work of art to see all of these different connections and wires. And, um, like, like these patterns of this chip kind of blown up to be on a 24 by 36 poster. And then on that poster at the bottom glued on was a little tiny chip that was maybe a centimeter by centimeter. And it said actual chip, actual size.

Rich (14:48):
And like, you could look and you could see that some of those bigger patterns, you could make it out on the chip, but it was blown up to be poster size. And it was one of the coolest things I think I’d ever seen is that like this tiny chip now blown up 24 by 36 to see how intricate and how involved it was. But, um, anyway, that was a total nerdy tangent, but you reminded me of it. So, um, you know, thanks for indulging me and to anyone who’s listening. Thanks also for indulging me and, and that memory. But I remember those days of, uh, kind of where two 86 or three 86 was the big thing and a 20 Meg hard drive was the standard, not 20 gig, but 20, 20 Meg. Um, so that’s fun. And then, and, and you sold, as you said, um, um, you know, probably hundreds of millions of dollars worth of, of computers. Um, and, and, and there was some, some sales and they are like, I’ve heard you tell stories about like how there was a sale sale on there, where the commission was just bigger than anything that you’d ever seen. Like, like in previous years, let’s say, um, so that, I guess that’s why I kind of put it as a stepping stone. It’s just like, where kind of things kind of maybe move to a new level and,

Kevin (16:05):
Yeah, that’s true. But I think that for many, like wherever you are like doubling, what you’re doing is it is a new level. Like for me, um, I didn’t break, uh, this might be interesting for people to, or if I did, I barely wrote of six figures that you’re, that I was in the Navy, but my Navy income was only probably $20,000. Um, they did pay for my housing at the air force base. So yeah, I did probably make very, very, very low six figures, but to add another $70,000 and income, uh, you know, for many on this podcast, maybe that’s a lot of money for many of us is to be like no money at all, but it’s all relevant to where you are. And if you have found yourself in the position of accepting a lifestyle that’s 20, $25,000, which we’d be more than that by now because, um, you know, we’ve had inflation in the decades since then, but if you’re accustomed to that, and then some opportunity comes along that you can three or four times your income, no matter where you’re starting, that is a significant uplift.

Kevin (17:18):
And I think that as we become older and more successful, we might have those Numerica uplifts, but few things are, are more transformative to our lives than those, um, small by number, but large by percentage up levels that we made when we were young, each of us. Uh, and if you’ve not made those when you’re young, make them now, and if you are young, take risks, uh, sell yourself on yourself and take risks on you. And, um, at the worst, you’re going to fail and have plenty of time to recover. And at best you might succeed beyond your wildest dreams.

Rich (18:00):
Yeah. I love that. Um, and, um, you know, in terms of scaling, um, I mean, what do you think is the secret to really five X-Wing, 10 X-ing? Um, you know, I, I see that there’s something there in something that, that you don’t see or an assumption that needs to be undone, or kind of like, how do you approach that? Like, like kind of finding the thing that helps you scale? Well, I think one,

Kevin (18:28):
Um, believing that what you do helps keeps us from having, um, any type of, let’s just stay spiritual governor on it that holds us spot. But then beyond that, finding someone who’s already done something similar and allowing them to share with us a strategy, if you’re, you’re, let’s just say planning to dig us, man, I’m thinking about swimming and hot tubs today, for sure. I don’t know, minds that out here in the desert in Nevada, but if you’re thinking of digging a swimming pool with a shovel, and you think my goodness, I’m going to dig this part in as fast and as diligently as I can for the next three weeks. And then I’m going to have this pool done, but then maybe you have a neighbor who says, have you ever considered renting the skid-steer a Bobcat? You can have that thing done in about four hours.

Kevin (19:14):
Your whole thought process is transformed into what is possible. And I think that for, I know rich, you’re a member of a number of masterminds in business. I’ve been a member of a number of masterminds, and also we both had mentors, but Ben mentors, I think that putting our, putting yourself, putting ourselves in the situation where people can see simpler paths to get there, where it’s not only that we’re doing more, but we’re doing things differently in a way that uses a different tool, a different approach that we might not have been considered. And I think that a great part of scaling is just changing the way that you view things. Um, there’s only so much you can do to speed up digging a swimming pool with a shovel, hire a couple more people with shovels, get people as many as you can dig harder to get a bigger shovel.

Kevin (20:06):
But at some point, you know, the limits of human capacity are going to be tested. But if you were to get a machine in a backhoe or a skid steer, it changes that entirely. And those same types of resources, both thoughts, ideas, tools, whatever are possible in just about anything in life, including business. And if you put yourself around people, many times, they’ve done it much more simply than you’ve done it. And you can either continue to, you know, brag about the fact that you are able to work so hard and do it in a strategy, you know, or you can be open to learning strategies from people have simplified things and grow at a great degree of scale, which is what you just brought up.

Rich (20:53):
Got it. So it’s like going from the shovel to the, um, to the Bobcat, right. It’s, it’s kind of like challenging an assumption, like where you think like, well, okay, if I’m going to dig a pool, I guess I got to use a shovel, and then you realize like, Oh, okay, there’s a whole different way of doing that, which then could change your whole way of thinking of what’s possible. And it sounds like, you know, part of what you’re saying is like, you should look to what other people have done because a lot of times, um, you know, there are other people who have been there and maybe if you look out and you see, Oh, they’re using, uh, a Bobcat to dig this swimming pool. And then you realize that that kind of like you could be digging all day with your shovel and never get the results that they’re getting. And so you can, you don’t have to reinvent the wheel. You could kind of do like you can adopt their frame for it essentially.

Kevin (21:48):
Or if you have a great mentor, you know, uh, or a group of mentors or, or, or a part of a mastermind or whatever, where people, you can put different frames together and, uh, you know, assimilate those because your situation might not be exactly what someone else has done, but you can take an idea from here. That makes sense and an idea from there that makes sense and put those together. Um, I mean, there’s just so much opportunity when we don’t get stuck in our ego and think that we know best, or we can own our own learn best. Uh, the word the world is full of incredibly brilliant people. And if we don’t underestimate them and overestimate ourselves, uh, we’re going to have a great opportunity to learn. I’ve learned so much from you, uh, just about different ways of thinking about things and protecting, uh, ideas and other ways of doing business and learn so much from so many people.

Rich (22:42):
Yeah. Thank you. Um, and, uh, and I agree. I mean, actually one of my favorite notions of creativity is, is where you discover that the rules aren’t the rules, like where you think that, that certain things are a rule, but they’re actually a strategy. And so, um, you know, a strategy is something that’s flexible that can be substitute with a different strategy, but if you think it’s a rule, um, if it’s a strategy masquerading as a rule, essentially, and, and so you, once you realize that it’s a strategy, once you realize that it’s not a hard and fast rule, that you don’t need to use a shovel that, um, that you don’t need to, to deliver products, doing a certain formula, that seems like everyone’s doing it in that manner, then that’s the, that’s an opportunity to be creative is like, it’s like, kind of like you’re saying, letting go of like your ego notion that, you know, best when you realize that.

Rich (23:35):
Well, maybe the thing that you’re sure of the thing that you assure is the way that it has to be, that, that it might not be true. Now, all of a sudden you’re open to seeing, um, all the possibilities, right? What, uh, what other people, including what other people have done better than, than I might have done, uh, to tackle the same problem. Yup. And, uh, um, you know, so, so essentially then w with regard to, to innovation, I mean, like, like you could borrow from other what other people have done. And you said also in terms of putting other frames together, it could be that, that, uh, you borrow your notion of how the product could be manufactured from, from this place where, and then you borrow a notion of how you, you reach your customer and sell to the customer from somewhere else. You can kind of borrow from different places and put different frames together. I assume that’s kind of what you meant with that.

Kevin (24:36):
Absolutely. And I’ll give you, I’ve heard in the zero podcasts that I have been from the experience of the zero podcasts that I’ve been a guest on, or this one I’ve heard, you’re supposed to offer one nugget of brilliance and I’ll do my best to do that. Um, many times people say I can’t X because Y you know, so let’s just use this, you know, I can’t dig a pool by sundown honey, because I, it’s only me and a shovel. If you can change, I can’t, because two, how can I, without, how can I dig a pool in one day without undergoing the limits of just meeting a shovel, just changing that about anything that you’re facing changing. I can’t, because two, how can I without and talking about the outcome that you’re wanting to achieve this crazy idea of an outcome that you think is impossible, and then putting that limiting action or belief or limiting factor in, how can I without, and just sitting with that, um, has really, really helped me in my life and being graded because many of the ideas I come up with are, um, very likely insane, but sometimes insane ideas are actually the best strategy.

Kevin (25:54):
And then you begin looking at like, wait, I can do this differently. And so you find that there’s a, there’s a really, really, really interesting, uh, opportunity for you if you, um, if you don’t be stuck with, as you said, any rules whatsoever, if you just write down all the possibilities of things that absolutely defy the rules, one of them may be start to make sense to you, and you only need one idea, one strategy that works great to make your, make your idea, your concept, your career, your life, your fitness, your income, your savings, soar.

Rich (26:30):
I love that. And, and sometimes the insane ideas can be the best strategy. I think that’s, that’s, uh, a really cool thought. And it’s like, um, you know, I guess, cause sometimes the insane ideas can the most creative and then maybe they turn out to be not as insane as they look on the surface. They actually turn out to be brilliant. And, um, um, so, uh, you know, on that note, if people want to learn more about you or get in touch with you, how do they go about doing so,

Kevin (27:01):
As you said, when we were coming to this interview, like, well, they didn’t did all sorts of reviews and there’s not a lot out there about you. I’m not a, somebody who really enjoys being in the public eye, but I do ruminate, uh, sometimes wisely, sometimes insanely, as we just mentioned and sometimes just, uh, completely off the cuff on my personal Facebook profile from time to time. Um, so I think that’s facebook.com forward slash the real Kevin nations. Uh, I don’t have a lot of paraphernalia or propaganda out there about me. And if I did, it would likely be very flattering and close to untrue. So I’ll just stick without any of that. But I do occasionally ruminate on my Facebook profile if people do want to come over there. And if not, I was just here to serve as much as I could today and offer value to you and anybody who may follow your teachings.

Rich (27:59):
Yes. Thank you. I appreciate that. And I probably should have said in the interview that you’re kind of one of the most brilliant under the radar folks out there that just like you don’t have a, uh, like a, uh, a big public profile, you know, people can’t really typically find out much about you, you don’t advertise for your services. You do all of your business by referral and by recommendation from people who’ve actually achieved the results from you. Um, and, uh, and as you mentioned that you’re zero other podcasts. So, um, so Kevin is unsure, but this may be his first podcast, or maybe he’s done one other, but it’s not a habit. And so Kevin, I totally appreciate you being here. I appreciate you taking the time to be on the show. Um, your, you know, you’re an awesome guy and have, have so much info information to share, um, with people that are, that are trying to, to grow their businesses, scale their businesses. And this was awesome. So just thanks so much for being here. Bridges my pleasure.

Kevin (28:58):
Thanks for having me.

Outro (29:03):
Thanks for listening to innovations and breakthroughs with your host, Rich Goldstein. Be sure to click, subscribe, check us out on the web at innovationsandbreakthroughs.com and we’ll see you next time.